Goethe’s birthday: Sahra Wagenknecht: With Goethe against small-mindedness

Ms. Wagenknecht, the verses come from Goethe: “Enthusiasm is not a herring commodity/ That you pickle for a few years.” How much time do you find – between the profile of your new party and the current election campaign in three eastern German states – for an enthusiastic reading of Goethe?

Not much at the moment – ​​a lot less than I would like. We are currently campaigning in Thuringia and Saxony, and at least I’m staying in a hotel in Weimar during this time. I just walked past the Goethe House yesterday, and of course it reminds me of the time when I worked there as a student and took tours. When the election campaign is over, I’ll take a look at the poems or “Faust” again, but at the moment – I admit – I have to read more dull things, such as the angry statements made by rival politicians against us. (laughs)

If you tried to describe what is fascinating about Goethe’s literary work: how would you describe it?

The fascinating thing is how far ahead of his time Goethe was! For example, if you read “Pandora”, which unfortunately remains a fragment, capitalism is described in all its contradictions: the ambivalence that the machines, the new technologies create a lot of wealth, but their ruthless use also destroys humanity and the Nature destroyed. “Faust II” also deals with the cost of “unleashing the productive forces” and the consequences for human interaction and for the exploited workers. Goethe followed this in England, the legendary Manchester capitalism. This is not just a thing of the past when you look at the conditions in many emerging or developing countries. And here too, life has become harder again for many people in the last few decades. It’s amazing how Goethe foresaw the problems and all the destructiveness of unleashed markets at a time when modernity was just beginning.

Reading Goethe politicized you as a young person and led to further formative reading experiences with Hegel and Marx led. In your opinion, can it be said that reading Goethe always remains incomplete if it is not supplemented by reading Marx?

You should definitely read both, that’s true. It is still the case today that reading Marx makes you smarter. Of course, today’s economy is no longer that of the 19th century. There are big differences, but there are many mechanisms, processes and the whole crisis that Marx analyzed precisely. If you want to understand how economics works today, Marx is not enough; But without Marx, only with the tools of modern economics, much remains obscure.

In recent years you have described your political positioning, and perhaps also the change in your political stance, with the label “left-wing conservatism”. Is this conservative worldview also reflected in your preference for German classical music?

The conservative has to be defined. I am not interested in preserving power relations or an unfair distribution of property. But there are traditions, customs, influences, culture – there is a lot worth preserving. People want stability and security. Unbridled capitalism is not conservative, but destructive. The former British Prime Minister Thatcher embodied this: “There’s no such thing as society” – there is no society – only individuals and markets. The classic left-wing approach, in contrast, was always solidarity, community spirit, cohesion. The welfare state only works if there is a sense of togetherness, otherwise it loses its democratic basis. This community spirit has been undermined in recent decades. The woke left is also more in the tradition of Thatcher than Marx. Identity politics inflates differences in ancestry, sexual orientation or skin color into central questions, and what we have in common moves into the background. The classic left was always conservative – simply because its voters were.

In addition to the false conservatism of the Neoberalen and the conservative in the tradition of the Federal Republic’s welfare state, there was in the GDR – also in the reception of Goethe there – its own conservatism, which was described in the diction of the time with the keyword “appropriation of the bourgeois-humanistic heritage”. Do you see any points of reference in this?

Oh well. There were quite obscure things, such as the GDR being part of the “Faust Third Part”. But what speaks for the education system at the time is that classical music had an important place in school. I find it worrying that “Faust” is disappearing from the curricula and is being played less and less in theaters. The Enlightenment and German Classics have left us unique works that should definitely be read further and taught in school.

Do you find people to talk to among your colleagues in professional politics when it comes to questions about classical literature?

There isn’t much opportunity to talk about classic literature with other politicians. (laughs) There may be some who would be a conversation partner. But when I look at the leaders of the other parties, I would rather not try that.

You mentioned that as a student you gave a tour of the Goethe home in Weimar. Is there an exhibit or an object in the museum that is of particular importance to you?

Goethe’s study has a special aura; it is largely authentically preserved, and you can really imagine how “Faust II” was created there. I always liked being in this house – from the wide staircase that Goethe had specially built when he came back from Italy, to the many Renaissance reproductions or the large Juno sculpture. That was a statement against the narrowness and small-mindedness of that time!

As a young woman, you have said in various interviews that you memorized “Faust First and Second Parts” by heart. Are there any verses that still resonate with you today?

We’re talking about something – I have to be honest – that dates back almost 40 years. I can no longer memorize “Faust,” but when I hear verses, especially from “Faust I,” I still remember what happens next. When it came to memorizing “Faust II,” the main incentive for me was to really understand each verse. Because in order to remember something, you have to understand it. Especially in “Faust II” there is so much in every line; I actually discovered a lot of things that way. For me it was about this very intense type of discussion.

Is there this concentration of knowledge beyond Goethe, in other authors or in the other arts, that you are still looking for today or have found?

Secure. With Peter Hacks, for example. There is hardly a poet who could write such verses in the 20th century. Even in Thomas Mann, for example in “Doctor Faustus”, I find things that still move us or, more precisely, even more so today. Of course I also read contemporary literature, such as the novels by Juli Zeh. Of course, the novel of our time is something different than “Wilhelm Meister’s Apprenticeship.” But Zeh beautifully translates the great debates of our time into characters and narratives.

More than seven years ago, you said in an interview that you would like to devote a book to Goethe’s criticism of capitalism. Is this a plan that still stands?

Writing books has always been important to me. In talk shows and during election campaigns, statements have to be kept very short. There is hardly any opportunity to argue in a more differentiated and profound way. Since we founded the BSW, however, writing books has been out of the question. But at some point I might be able to find a better balance here again. I would like to write a book about Goethe and Hegel and what these great thinkers still have to say to us today.